Photography by Jim Doty

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Peacock Feather

Jim Doty, Jr.



Films have sharpness, grain, color balance, color saturation and contrast. The sharpness of a film is its ability to render fine detail on film. It is sometimes measured in the number of lines per millimeter the film can resolve. Sharpness also has to do with accutance, the degree to which two adjacent colors bleed into each other (the less bleeding the higher the desired accutance).  There are other measures of sharpness. High sharpness is an asset in most photography.

Grain is to films as pixels are to computers.  Smaller pixels make better images. The finer the grain or dye clumps in a photograph, the more natural and smooth the picture looks. Nature photographers usually look for fine grained films.  For some artistic effects, photographers will use large grain, high speed film, and push the film to increase the size of the grain even more.

The color balance of films determines whether they make subjects more cool (blue), neutral, or warm (yellow-red).  Advertising photographers often pick a neutral film.  Nature photographers usually pick warm films.

Color saturation is whether the film makes colors muted, natural, or enhanced. This is a matter of taste. Films with a more subtle, pastel color palette can render finer gradations in tone than an enhanced film.  Imagine a flower with delicate gradations of lavender shades in each petal. A muted film would show the graduals shifts in intensity of color.  An enhanced film would give a more vivid lavender color, but lose the subtle, gradations. The current trend in nature photography is toward enhanced colors.

Contrast is the ability to capture differences between light and dark tones.  Low contrast films capture more of a range between light and dark. High contrast films can capture highlight details when properly exposed, but will lose detail in the shadows.  Many of the new enhanced color films are also high contrast. On days with flat, diffused light, this makes for better looking pictures.  On days with bright, directional, high contrast light, the high contrast film is often too contrasty.

In general, slower films are sharper, have higher resolution, smoother less-visible grain, and better color. Beyond that, many judgments about film are subjective.  Keep this in mind, experiment, make comparisons, and use what pleases you. Pick a few of films that most suit your purposes and learn them well. When a new film comes out, try it.


There are three general types of film plus a number of specialty films. The general types are color slide film (reversal), color negative, and black and white negative.  Processed color slide film has normal, unreversed colors. Most color slide film (Ektachrome, Fujichrome, and Agfachrome) is processed in "E-6" chemistry which is readily available.  Kodachrome slide film is processed in "K-14" chemistry, a complicated process done only by Kodak and a few other specialty labs around the country. Kodachrome is in essence, a multi-layer black and white film in which the color dyes are added during the processing.  Most infra-red slide film is processed in "E-4" chemistry which is done only by a few labs around the country. E-4 process infrared film must be loaded and unloaded in the camera in total darkness, and the camera can't have a film window on the back of the camera or the film will be fogged. New E-6 process infra-red films are in the works. 

"E-6" color slide films can be "cross processed" in "C-41" chemistry for reversed colors.  This will not harm the film or the processing chemistry.  This is done for special effects.

Processed color negative film has reversed colors with an orange mask.  Color negative film is processed in "C-41" chemistry which is available almost everywhere.  When printed on color printing paper, the colors are reversed again so they look normal on the print.

Processed black and white negatives are in shades of white, gray, and black with reversed tonalities (light subjects look dark and vice versa).  When printed on black and white printing paper, the tonalities are again reversed to give normal looking tonalities.  Most black and white films are processed in standard black and white chemistry.

There are some "chromogenic" black and white films (such as Ilford's XP2 Super and Kodak's T400CN) which are made up of dyes and designed to be processed in "C-41" color chemistry (this does not hurt the chemistry). When processed, these films do not have the same "look" as standard black and white films but they print well on either black and white or color paper. If you have these negatives printed on color paper at your local lab, they will probably have a color cast.  Chromogenic black and white films are for those who want black and white prints but need the convenience of processing at a local color lab. 

There are special slide duplicating films and other specialty films available (see Petersen's BIG BOOK OF PHOTOGRAPHY, the annual film guide issue of Petersen's PHOTOGRAPHIC, or the film coverage articles in POPULAR PHOTOGRAPHY or the NATURAL IMAGE).


Slide film names usually end in "chrome" like Kodachrome.  Print film names often end in "color" like Fujicolor. 

Slides:  You see and judge the original. What you did when you took the picture is what you get. The color you see is the color you get.  You see the direct results of special filters and exposure judgments. Slide film gives you the most critical measure of your exposure accuracy. Generally, slide film will give you an exposure latitude of about 1/2 stop either side of ideal. Much more than that and your picture is too light or too dark (or you can dupe to correct exposure).  This is why photographers using slide film are more likely to bracket exposures. It is the best film for fireworks, lightning and astrophotography unless you do your own printing or can work with a good printer.  Slide film is the preferred film for most nature and landscape photographers. It is also the film of choice in much advertising photography.  

Negatives/print film:  Prints are second generation. The color balance and exposure are the judgment of some other person (or worse yet, some machine), not you (unless you print your own). The printing process can average out or eliminate the results of special filters you used and exposure judgments you made.  Prints may not tell you how accurate your exposure decisions are, and it is often hard to judge from those orange tinted film frames. Negatives give you more exposure latitude than slides, anywhere from one or two stops under to two or three stops over will often yield an acceptable picture by compensation in the printing process.  This gives you a margin of error in iffy situations. This is why photographers that use negative film bracket less than slide shooters.  It is usually the preferred film of wedding and portrait photographers.

Slide film gives you slides you can project. Print film gives you prints you can show and put in an album. Slides can be converted to negatives and vice-versa, but you lose a little bit of quality in the process. Slide film and processing is less expensive than an equal number of negatives and prints.  That is why professionals that shoot print film tend to make contact sheets and have selects made into prints, rather than printing every negative.

It is not expensive to have an occasional print made from a slide.  It is very expensive to make prints from most of your slides. If you mainly want prints, shoot print film.  It is less expensive to have prints made from all your negatives than from all your slides. It is not expensive to have an occasional slide made from a negative.  It is very expensive to have lots of slides made from a lot of your negatives (with one exception noted in the next paragraph).  If you mainly want slides, use slide film.

If you want both slides and prints from every frame on a roll of film, done well and at a reasonable price, use a high quality negative film (Kodak, Fuji, Agfa) and send it to a place like DALE LABS, 2960 Simms Street, Hollywood, FL 33020-9962.  Phone 800-327-1776 for information and mailers. The prints will begood and so will the slides. I took identical pictures with slide and negative film. I had the slide film processed normally and sent the negative film to Dale Labs for slides and prints. The prints were good.  Many of the slides from the print film looked good by themselves.  When I compared them to the same pictures I originally took on slide film, some of the Dale Labs "slides from negatives" had less "sparkle and pizzazz" than the slides originally taken on slide film.  The "original" slides also did better than the "slides from negatives" in some tricky lighting situations.

I do not recommend re-spooled motion picture film used by several specialty labs around the country. These are usually identified by a four digit number. The color quality is not as good and the color dyes are less stable, and the negatives must be processed in one of the specialty labs. If you have prints made at a regular lab from one of these negatives, it is harder to get the color balance right.

About 95% of all published landscape and nature photography is shot on slide film (check the film credits in books, magazines, and calendars). If you want to be published, shoot slides (except in the newspaper business).

A number of professional nature photographers believe the quality of slow speed slide films is superior to slow speed negative films. It is generally conceded that high speed print films are better in quality than high speed slide films. We use slide film in this class because it is the preferred film for nature photography, and it will teach you more about your photography than any other film. Print film latitude is not an excuse for sloppy exposure. Hone your exposure skills with an occasional roll of slide film, even if you mostly use print film. A well-exposed negative will give you a better print than a poorly exposed negative, especially an under-exposed negative.


Resolution of different films is hard to test at home. Read the photo magazines for what they say.  George Lepp does film comparisons in THE NATURAL IMAGE, PO Box 6240, Los Osos, CA 93412. Phone 805-528-7385. Popular Photography regularly compares films. Photographic's BIG BOOK OF PHOTOGRAPHY, published annually, is a good collection of reprinted articles from back issues. It has a good set of articles on the basics of photography. It includes a "Film Buyer's Guide" which covers a lot more films than THE NATURAL IMAGE or PopPhoto but in much less detail. It covers specialty and unusual films that are not part of the usual "bag of tricks" for the photographer.

You can compare the color balance and characteristics of different films yourself. Shoot two different films under identical or similar conditions. This is easier if you have two camera bodies.  If not, do your comparison on the end of one roll and the beginning of another.  Compare how different films handle sunlit snow (or other white subjects) in the middle of the day. Some will keep the snow a neutral white, others will add a slight tinge of color.

Shoot and compare high contrast scenes with sunlit areas combined with deep shade.  Expose slide film for the sunny areas and see which films give the most details in the shade, if any.  Expose print films for the shade and see which can hold the sunny areas best without burning out the colors (a real test for your lab!!).

Compare reciprocity failure in long exposures. Compare two slide pictures taken of a waterfall in the shade with small apertures and long shutter speeds.  Are there color shifts?  Try several aperture and shutter speed combinations (that give the same exposure) to see at which shutter speeds the color shift becomes noticeable.  This is easiest to detect in the white water of waterfalls. Remember to add exposure for shutter speeds in the 1 second or longer category to take care of reciprocity failure.

Take pictures of the same subject in the shade (on a sunny cloud free day) with two different films.  Does one film counteract the blue color cast of the shade better than the other? (This is more obvious with slide films. Good printers will try to adjust for the color cast when printing negative films.)

Take a picture of a MacBeth ColorChecker in full sun with every slide film you test.  It has 16 standardized colors and a 6 step gray scale from white to black.  Take a picture of the color checker with negative film and it is a double test: 1) of your film and 2) of the accuracy of the lab that does your prints. A MacBeth ColorChecker costs about $50.  A less expensive color test chart can be made by gluing paint store color test strips on poster board. Pick red, orange, gold, yellow, green, blue, violet and brown colors.  Leave part of your poster board white, add a piece of 18% gray card and paint part of it flat black. Keep your color checker (home made or otherwise) in the dark when not in use to mimimize fading.  Compare color checker slides of different films, or prints from different negatives, with each other and your color checker.


This is not my area of expertise.  Read the literature.  This is what I have read, not tested for myself.

Kodak Royal Gold 25 (RZ).  Sharpest color negative film around. Excellent for scenics. Iffy skin tones. Unfortuantely, this amazingly sharp film has been discontinued.

Kodak Royal Gold 100 (RA). Excellent skin tones.  Almost as sharp as Royal Gold 25.  Excellent all around film. Exposure latitude is limited, meter carefully.

Kodak Gold Plus 100 (GA).  More exposure latitude than its Royal Gold cousins, not as sharp, skin tones good.

Fujicolor Reala 100 (CS).  Best color for outdoor nature and scenic photography. Good skins tones.  Best color under flourescent lights. Sharpness is a little below Kodak Royal Gold 100 and equal to Gold Plus 100.

The other Fuji prints films are also good. The newer the version, the better the quality. The oldest (and still sold at reduced prices) are the HG and HG II. Look for Super G which is more recent and Superia which is most recent.

If I were to do nature and scenic work with color print film, I would start by trying the above films with Fuji Reala as my first choice and Royal Gold 25 my second if I could find it.  Royal Gold 100 would be third.

For people pictures on amateur film (see the pro films below) I would use the 100 speed films above, with a preference for Royal Gold 100. If I had to shoot with flourescent lights (no flash), I would definitely use Fuji's Reala or new Superia Reala. Generally, 100 speed films are too slow to use inside without flash.  Switch to a faster film. Fuji's Super G 800 and new Superia Xtra 800 are is said to be as good as many of the 400 speed films. Kodak's new Gold 800 is equally god or a little better provided it is not underexposed.

With static subjects inside, go back to the 100 speed films and use a tripod if you want maximum quality.


For portraits or wedding photography, Kodak pro films are hard to beat.  Kodak Vericolor 160 speed film (VPS III) has been a great film for years (rate it at 100). I have been using Kodak's Pro 400 MC (usually called "PMC") for portraits and weddings and it was my favorite (see Portra below). I set the film speed on the camera at 200, take the pictures, and ask for "video analysed prints" at Kalamazoo Color Lab.  You can buy PMC in five packs at Norman Camera.  I have read good things about Fuji NHG 400 but not tried it.

Kodak is replacing VPS and PMC with their new "Portra" line with 160 and 400 speed films.  My favorite new people films are Kodak Portra 400 NC or 400 VC (the colors are stronger in the VC version).  I rate these films at 200. Try them both and see which you like best.


Until 15 years ago, Kodak's Kodachrome 25 and 64 were tops with scenic and nature photographers.  Kodak's Ektrachromes just couldn't match the sharpness of the Kodachromes and the Ektachrome color balance was too cool (blue). A small core of photographers swore by the softer color palette of the Agfachromes and their ability to hold subtle gradations in color, but in general Kodachrome was king.

Then came Fujichrome 100 and 50. Vivid colors but not as sharp as Kodachrome.  Fujichrome renditions made Kodachrome almost plain looking in comparison.  Some photographers used Kodachrome and Fujichrome side by side, one for sharpness and one for color. And Kodachrome was (and still is) the undisputed archival dark storage leader.

Fuji toned down the color of the Fujichrome 50 and 100, and came out with Velvia, a warm film as vivid as the old Fujichrome 100 and as sharp as Kodachrome 25. An almost instant hit, Velvia is a well deserved favorite with scenic photographers.  Advertised as a 50 speed film, it is best rated at ISO 40 (this is not for pull processing, see the NOTE* in PULLING FILM below). Velvia was too slow for a lot of wildlife photographers shooting in low evening and early morning light. They continued to use Fujichrome 100, sometimes pushed to 200, or the new warmer colored Ektachrome Plus Professional (EPP), a wonderful 100 speed film (excellent for people too!), sharper than the old Ektachromes and without the "blues."

Kodak countered with Lumiere 100 and Lumiere 100X. Lumiere 100 was neutral balanced, and Lumiere 100X warm balanced. These were excellent films except for some color inconsistencies mentioned below.

Not to be outdone, Fuji released Provia 100 and its amateur version, Sensia 100, later replaced by Sensia II 100.  The slide wars were on between the green and yellow boxes.

Despite the warmth and sharpness of the Lumiere films, some professional photographers complained to Kodak about some inconsistency in color from box to box and over time. Kodak's solution was the release of Ektachrome E100S and E100SW.  Produced in a new manufacturing facility designed for the ultimate in color balance and film speed consistency, these are excellent films and an improvement on the Lumiere films. The S stands for saturated (enhanced colors) and the W for warm. 

These are great films, up with the best in sharpness, and less contrasty.  E100S has a neutral color balance, E100SW is warm, and Elite Chrome 100 (successor to Elite II 100) is in between in color balance.

Reciprocity failure is less of a problem with these new Kodak films due to minimal color shift or need for increased exposure times in long exposures.

Fuji has released Provia 100F which is probably the finest grained and sharpest slide film made. The colors are more neutral than Velvia, E100VS and E100SW.  The color is less saturated than Velvia.  Provia 100F also pushes well.


All of these new films are very sharp, and are very fine to ultra-fine grained.  The main decisions relate to cost, color balance, color saturation and contrast. My three favorites are Fuji Velvia,  Kodak E100SW, and a brand new film,  Kodak E100VS (very saturated).  I still need more experience with Provia 100F, but it looks to be a very good film in my initial tests..

E100VS is Kodak's answer to Velvia.  It is Kodak's first film to be equal to Velvia in color saturation.  It is very close to Velvia in sharpness.

I prefer Fuji Velvia and E100VS for landscape and flower photography.  They are both razor sharp, high color and ultra-fine grained.  Velvia may have a slight sharpness edge.  E100VS has a lot of contrast and Velvia even more.  If there is enough light, I prefer Velvia.

I prefer Kodak Ektachrome E100SW for wildlife. It is very sharp, very fine grained, has enhanced colors (though not as enhanced as Velvia and E100VS) in a warm color balance, and lower in contrast than Velvia. E100SW (and E100S) have less reciprocity failure than Velvia and most other films. With Velvia, reciprocity failure begins around 1 second.  With the Kodak E100 films, it begins around 8-10 seconds.

For a people slide film in natural light, I would use Kodak Ektachrome Professional Plus 100 (EPP) or E100S. E100S is sharper (not always an advantage with a people film) but EPP has a pretty nice look.  For people photos with flash I prefer E100SW for a warm balance (it helps compensate for the cooling effect of many flash units) or E100S for a neutral balance. Elite Chrome 100 and Sensia II 100 are less expensive options respectively for warm and neutral films.

A lower cost alternative to E100SW is Kodak Elite Chrome 100. The color is not quite as refined as E100SW and not quite as warm, but it is a good, sharp, all around film.

A lower cost version of E100VS is Kodak Elite Chrome 100 Extra Color.

For natural light photos inside under tungsten lights, I want a neutral color balance film (tungsten lights are warm). My choices here are E100S, Fuji Provia 100F, or Fuji Sensia II 100. I can't tell the difference between Sensia and Provia 100 (non-F), so I use the less expensive Sensia. Sensia is very inexpensive.  I have very little experience with Fuji Astia 100.

Once in a while I use Kodachrome 25 for nature photography. It is very sharp, but the colors look tame compared to Velvia and the E100 films.  It lasts longer stored in the dark than any other film and also makes an excellent, daylight-balanced slide duping film (see DUPLICATION notes).  Kodachrome 25 also has

minimal color shifts in long, low light exposures (Kodachrome 64 shifts to the green in long exposures - very undesirable). Because of its archival keeping ability, some photographers copy their original slide onto Kodachrome 25 and store these copies in the dark.  With proper storage, they should keep with little or no fading for 75 - 100 or more years (see FILM STORAGE notes).

If you need a faster slide film outside for wildlife in low light, you have several options. The best 200 speed slide film is Kodak E200.  This is a great film.  Don't buy other 200 speed slide films. Some of them are actually 400 speed films with a neutral density layer to slow down the film speed to 200, thus reducing the quality of the film (dumb).

For a higher speed slide film you have two choices:  Kodak E200 (or the elite Chrome 200 amateur version) or Fuji MS 100/1000 multispeed film. Both of these films are made for pushing.  I have used Kodak E200 at 200, 320 and 640. It is a very impressive film pushed, much better than older, higher speed slide films. Here are some push processing recommendations for E200 (these are not what you would expect).


  Set camera at    Ask the lab for

         320             1 stop push

         640             2 stop push

         1000            3 stop push

E200 is a sharp film (not up to the 100 speed films, but better than any other 200 speed film) with good color and the best slide film for pushing with good color at 320 and 640.

The other choice, not tried by me, is Fuji MS 100/1000.  It is a 100 speed slide film designed for pushing that I have read is good.  The disadvantage is you have to pay to have it pushed to get to 200 and Kodak's E200 is already at 200 without paying for push processing. But for those who prefer the look and color of MS 100/1000, it makes a fine basic 100 speed film that does look good when pushed.

I have also pushed Provia 100F and initial results look very good. I rate it at 160 and tell the lab to push it one stop.

Kodachrome 200 is a sharp but grainy alternative for low light. Some photographers like to use it to add texture to snowy winter scenes in the same way some fashion photographers use high speed grainy films for a textured look. Kodachrome 200 can be pushed to 500 (see below). Think of it as a color version of pushed Tri-X.  If you try this, set your film speed dial at 500.  When you send your film in to Kodak to be processed, ask for "push processing, rated at 500."  There is an extra charge for this.

If you need a slide film faster than E200 or MS 100/1000 pushed, use Fuji Superia Xtra 800 or its predecessor Fuji Super G 800 print film. These films will give3 you prints. If you need slides, use these negative films and send them to DALE LABS to have slides made from your negatives (see above).


The switch from Kodachrome to Velvia is illustrated by a survey I did of film labelled pictures in Outdoor Photography magazine. Back in 1987, most pictures were taken with Kodachrome 25 or 64, with second place taken by Fujichrome 50 and 100.

In issues from late 1998 through early 1999 the count was as follows:

  Fuji Velvia                  63

 Kodak E100VS          3

 Kodak E100SW          17

 Kodak E100S             1

 Elite Chrome 100        1

 Kodachrome 64         23

 Kodachrome 200        2

 Fujichrome  Provia      4

 Fujichrome 100          3

 Fuji Sensia 100         3

 Fuji MS 100/1000      1

 Agfa RSX 100            2

 Fuji Reala                  4

 Kodak PRN 100         1

 Kodak Gold 100          1

Slide film is still dominant, and Velvia has taken the lead. 


I buy most of my film from Norman Camera or B&H Photo (in New York). Buying film in New York is less expensive, but you need to get 4 or more rolls so the savings exceeds the $7 or $8 in shipping.

There are many places in town to get negative film processed. I usually go to Kalamazoo Color Lab.

I send Kodachrome 25 slide film to Kodak via Kodak processing mailers or A&I with A&I labels.

If I am in a hurry, I have E-6 slide films processed at Kalamazoo Color Lab. Otherwise, I send E-6 film to Kodak, Fuji, or A&I COLOR via processing mailers/labels.  Mailers are available from B&H Photo or M&M Photo.  Fuji processing mailers are about $3.50 per roll, Kodak mailers are about $4.70 per roll, and A&I Color labels are about $5.50 per roll. The mailers/labels cover the cost of processing and the processing labs pay the return postage.


Pushing film is essentially telling the camera you are using faster film than you really are. This results in underexposed film which is compensated for by over developing the film when it is processed.  The advantage to this is when you need a faster film than you have with you, or pushing E200 (or when you forget or incorrectly set the film speed on the camera).

It works like this.  When you load, for example, 100 speed film in the camera, set the film speed on the camera at 200, and in essence, pretend you are using 200 speed film.  You "rated" your 100 speed film at 200. This doesn't change the film at all, the actual result is that the film is underexposed by one stop. Mark the film as "Rated at 200" when you remove it from the camera so you don't forget. When you take your film in to be processed, indicate that it was "Rated at 200 - Push 1 stop" and the lab will overdevelop the film to compensate for the underexposure. This process will give you "faster film" with a slight loss of sharpness and color quality.

A two stop push is possible (like rating 400 speed film at 1600 with 2 stop push processing by the lab) with even more loss of quality.  I would not recommend a 3 stop push except in an emergency, and would avoid a 2 stop push unless using Kodak E200 or Fuji MS 100/1000.

You push the whole roll of film. If you were to decide to re-rate 50 speed film to 100 speed in mid-roll and ask for a 1 stop push from the lab, the last half of the roll (the pushed half) would be properly exposed but the first half of the roll would be 1 stop overexposed.  It might be worth sacrificing part of a roll to push the rest of the roll for a rare opportunity in low light, like photographing the Loch Ness Monster.

Except for press photographers using high speed print film designed to be pushed, print film is rarely pushed.

For a high speed, grainy, journalistic effect, Kodak can push Kodachrome 200 to 500.  Set your film speed dial to 500, shoot the film, and ask Kodak to "Push processs - Rated at 500."  Labs charge extra for push and pull processing.

Although the conventional wisdom is that a 1stop push means you should double the film speed, it is my experience that many films look 1/3 stop underexposed this way.   That is the reason for the E200 recommendations above.  Applied to 100 speed films: rate the film at 160 and ask for a one stop push, or rate the 100 speed film at 320 and ask for a two stop push. This often seems to work better.


The opposite of pushing film.  You rate the film slower than its actual speed, which results in it being overexposed in camera. You ask the lab to pull process the film.  They underdevelop the film to balance out the overexposure when the film was shot. There is one advantage to pulling slide film.  To tame the high contrast of most slide films, some nature photographers will rate their film 1/3 stop slow, resulting in a slight overexposure of the film.  They ask for a 1/3 to 1/2 stop pull at the time of processing, giving a slight under development of the film.  The net result is properly exposed film with lower contrast and better shadow detail. It works, but it adds to the cost of processing. I've never deliberately tried this.

NOTE* The recommendation above to rate Fuji Velvia at 40 is not for purposes of pull processing.  Most professional nature photographers believe that Velvia is a true ISO 40 speed film, despite Fuji calling it a 50 speed film.  Set your camera film speed at 40 when using Velvia, and have it processed normally.


If your lab can't push or pull your E-6 film as much as you want or need, call THE NEW LAB in San Francisco at 800-526-3165. Their prices are higher than the average lab, but they get the job done right.  Galen Rowell uses THE NEW LAB, as do other professionals.  They can also make 70mm reproduction grade duplicates from your 35mm original slides. This is how some photographers avoid sending their 35mm originals to magazines or books for publication. Address: 651 Bryant St., San Francisco, CA 94107.

Another good lab is A&I COLOR, 933 N. Highland Ave, Hollywood, CA 90038. Phone 800-883-9088.  They do regular slide processing via mailers and labels, and push and pull processing for a reasonable charge.  A number of professionals have their slides processed by A&I.

These two labs are among the finest in the country.

This text is copyrighted by the author and shoiuld not be reproduced without permission.

Update, January 2003: New  Kodak E100GX slide film.

June 20, 2000
Updated Jan 17, 2003

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